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Did Jesus Say "My God" To His Father?
Who was Jesus speaking to, when He said, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
The Easter season is fast approaching, and for the past 10 years I have been asking the same question. As for the status-quo, the existing responses I receive, are spotty, incomplete, without Biblical authority, taken out of context of all surrounding passages, many repeating only what they have been taught and none making any sense.
The question is, Was Jesus speaking to the Father when He said, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" From the words one would get the impression that this was the case and that Jesus was speaking to His Father. The pretext of the replies I receive leaves me to feel that they are put forth to conceal the real intention of the verse in question, maybe not intentional, but put forth anyway.
Besides this, the responses I receive leave to many unanswered questions, they not fitting the context of the verses before and after the verse in question.
So, I say emphatically, "NO," Jesus could not have been speaking to His Father. I will put forth my reasoning.
I believe that most in the Christian community today get stuck on the first think they hear about Scriptural subjects. If it sounds good, it must be right. From this position, no evidence, no matter how thoroughly presented can make them reconsider their responses. I only ask that you consider my evidence on the subject, reason them out, then draw your conclusions.
Peer-pressure can be detrimental to free and reasonable thinking. Personally I like to ask questions, examine both the Greek and Hebrew words involved, the text and context. Then with the help of the Holy Spirit, I would expect to establish a correct answer to any important Biblical question.
In researching any subject at hand, if my conclusions agree with the teaching being put forth, that's fine, if not, I will challenge the teaching presented. If It can be shown that my findings are incorrect, I will recant. At heart, I must be a brother to the Bereans. Researching a subject thoroughly is good policy, also the Scriptures encourage us to do just that.
It appears that a great deal of personal opinions, personal feelings and old time religious opinions are the reason most believe that Jesus was speaking to His Father.
Any way, I will present my case on the subject. Keep in mind, this is a Bible study, based on a whole bunch of questions that need answering if you say Jesus was speaking to His Father. Please help me to resolve this issue, and come to a correct understanding.
The way we respond to the following questions will show why the teaching can be affirmed, rejected, or needs to be investigated further.
1. Is Jesus God?
2. If you believe Jesus to be God, can He never NOT be God? In other words can He ever change in for one second?
3. Did the Father send His Son?
4. Did Jesus of His own free will leave heaven, come to earth, take on the form of a man, this in order to finish His Father's work?
5. Did Jesus know of His pending death on the cross?
6. Was Christ's death prophesied in the O.T?
7. Did Jesus die for any sin that He had committed?
8. Was Jesus both the son of man, and the Son of God?
9. Has Jesus ever changed, or will He ever change?
10. Did the apostiles forsake = (abandon) Him?
11. Did the Jewish people forsake Him?
12. Did the Jewish religious leaders forsake Him?
13. Did the Romans leaders, both political, and military forsake Him?
14. When Jesus went to the cross, how many people went to suffer and die with Him?
16. Who was it that raised the Lord from the grave?
17. Was there any other way for men to be forgiven of their sins if Jesus did not go to the cross?
These are my questions. If you answer the questions correctly, you should come to a correct conclusion to the original question of, "Who was Jesus speaking to when He said, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me."
Let us first examine the Greek word, "forsake, and forsaken: The Greek is, egkataleipo. To leave behind in any place or state; generally. To leave. It is a transitive verb meaning that it expresses action that passes from the agent to the object.
A. By implication. Forsaken means to leave in the lurch, as in to forsake, to desert, to abandon. Old and New Testament examples of how the word "Forsaken," is used follow.
John 16:32, Jesus said, "Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone (or forsake me:) and yet the Father is with me."
1. Matt. 27:46, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Also found in Mark 15:34, quoted from Ps.22:1.
2. Ps.22:1, "David said, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me."
3. 2 Cor.4:8-9, "We are, -- persecuted, but not forsaken"
4. 2 Tim.4:10, Paul wrote, "Demas hath forsaken me," ver.16, "no man stood with me, but all men forsook me."
5. Heb.10:25, "not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together," ver.13:5, "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."
6. Deut. 31:6-8, "the LORD -- He will be with thee, He will not fail thee, neither forsake thee."
7. Isa.1:8, "they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed." Also,
8. Isa. 62:4, "Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken."
9. Isa.62:12, "The redeemed of the LORD: And thou shalt be called, sought out, a city not forsaken."
10. Isa.49:14, "Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my LORD hath forgotten me
11. Isa.54:6-7, "For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou was refused, saith thy God. For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee."
Also, Past particle, expresses completed action. As
Acts 2:27, "thou wilt not leave = (forsake, abandon) my soul in hell," quoted from Ps. 16:10, where Sept. "leave."
Above is how the word forsaken is used, it meaning abandoned, deserted, left out on a lurch, left alone.
From the words themselves, Jesus appears to be speaking to His Father. But is there any evidence that we can produce that would disprove that teaching?
Lets go back to the 17 questions.
If you answered YES to the first question, "Is Jesus God,"
You need to ask yourself, if Jesus is God, than how can God the Father "forsake" God the Son? It would be as if the Father had abandoned Himself. Because the Father sent His Son to do and finish His work, and Jesus now sends us to do the work of the Gospel; If the Father had forsakes His Son, how could I trust Jesus not to forsake me if things go bad? Did He forsake His apostiles when they were caught and killed? This thought would have set a bad precedent. Also it would enforce the cults teaching that Jesus is not really God, our Creator, but only a god, a prophet, or a good man, but definitely not God"
Heb. 1:3, "Who being the brightness of His (the Father's) glory, and the express image of His (the Father's) person, and upholding all things by the word of His power."
Express meaning, It refers to something graven, cut into, stamped or graven into. The words here a quite different from man being made in God's image and likeness. So ask yourself, who can be like God, except God Himself.
1 Cor.11:7, "For He (Jesus) is the image and glory of God (the Father.)"
The answer can be applied also to question two. When can Jesus not be God? He can't. "He is always, from eternity past to eternity present, "upholding all things by the word of His power." Not for one moment can He not be God, never, or ever.
3. Did the Father send His Son? Answer is Yes.
A. John 3:16, "God (the Father) so loved the world, the He gave His only begotten Son (Jesus.)
B. John 3:17, "For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world: But that the world through Him (Jesus) might be saved."
C. Mark 9:37, Jesus said, "Whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but Him (the Father) that sent me." So why would He forsake the one He sent?
4. Did Jesus of His own free will leave heaven, come to earth, take on the form of a man, this in order to finish His Father's work? Answer is Yes.
5. Did Jesus know of His pending death, and expect to die? Answer is, Yes.
6. Was Christ's death prophesied in the O.T? Answer is Yes. Ps.22:16, "For dogs have compassed me: The assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: They pierced my hands and my feet." Read all of Ps.22.
Read all of Isaiah 53.
7. Did Jesus die for any sin that He had committed? Answer is No. He was, 1 Pet.1:2, "A lamb without blemish and without spot."
8. Was Jesus both the son of man, and the Son of God? Answer is Yes. The flesh was that of man, the soul and spirit of Christ was from the Holy Spirit. His name shell be called, "Emmanuel, God with us."
9. Has Jesus ever changed, or will He ever change? Answer is No. Heb.13:8, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever."
10. Did the disciples forsake = (abandon) Jesus? Answer is Yes. Matt.26:56, "All this was done that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook Him (Jesus) and fled."
11. Did the Jewish people forsake Him? Answer is Yes. Mark 15:13, "And they (the people) cried out again, Crucify Him."
12. Did the Jewish religious leaders forsake Him? Answer is Yes. They lead the people.
13. Did the Romans leaders, both political, and military forsake Him? Answer is Yes, they honored Caesar as their lord.
14. When Jesus went to the cross, how many people went to suffer and die with Him? Answer, None. Ps.22:11, "there is none to help."
16. Who was it that raised the Lord from the grave?
It was Jesus Himself. John 10:17-18, Jesus said, "My Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to TAKE IT AGAIN. This commandment have I received of my Father."
For those who will say that the Father could not look upon sin as Jesus hung from the cross. My reply is this, When did Jesus or the Father ever look upon sin favorably? Yet in the O.T. Under the law, when did God ever reject any offering of a First born Lamb, one without spot or blemish as a sin offering, this for the sins of the people? He never did.
Some may say it was the pain He was suffering that made Jesus cry out, "My God, My God. This may be true but I don't think so. My reasons,
As for the pain and agony He suffered, no one will never fully realize. We can look at the following to best get an idea of the agony He suffered. The words Excruciate, and Excruciating. The words come from the Latin, Ex. And Crux. Meaning, "to torment from a cross." This word was invented to reveal the amount of pain suffered in the crucifixion, for no other Greek word came close to revealing the pain and agony of crucifixion.
Before the crucifixion Jesus had been beaten by fists, had a crown of thorns driven into His head, beaten again with reeds, was scourged, meaning whipped him with a Roman scourge. With these scourging on His back and legs, He most likely lost a lot of blood. The sharpened animal bones places at the end of the lashes cut Him to the bone. The metal tied to the end of the lashes gave the skin very deep trauma. Now spikes were driven into His wrists, and feet. Each hitting very sensitive nerves, causing extreme pain.
Jesus hung in a position where it has been estimated that His joints in the shoulder, elbow, and wrist came out of joint,and his arms were stretched out from 2 to 4 inches. His tendons and ligaments kept his arms from tearing away from His body. Most likely He was in shock, His blood pressure was extremely low from a lose of blood. Yet He was coherent for He spoke the following,
Some claim that in His pain and agony Jesus may have been out of His mind with pain, crying out, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me." At a quick glance, this seems reasonable. Therefore we must examine every thing that went down just before and just after Jesus spoke these words.
John 19:26, While hanging on the cross, "When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom He loved, He (Jesus) saith unto His mother, Woman behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple Behold thy mother!"
Here Jesus seems to be aware of his surroundings, and able to comprehend and reason out His answer to this situation concerning His mother. He asking the apostle John to care for His mother upon His death.
One of the thieves on the cross said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." Understanding the request, Jesus replied, "Verily I say unto thee, to day shalt thou be with me in paradise."
Again Jesus seem to comprehend the words of the man, and responds to him as one having authority and control.
Moments after he said, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Jesus said, John 19:28, He, "knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst."
He seemed to understood His goals, and finished the work of the cross. Also that He was aware of His physical needs, for He said, "I thirst."
The last thing He said, was, Luke 23:46, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit." Does this sound like a man who was out of His mind with pain, and a man who had been forsaken by His Father?
Again His last words were, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: And having said thus, He gave up the ghost (He died.)"
The above makes me to understand that Jesus did not say what He said because He was out of His mind with pain, nor was He incoherent, insane, nor did He feel forsaken by His Father, But by the people he loved and wept for.
Did God ever reject the offering (the lamb) from a high priest if the priest had purified himself properly, and followed the law according to the way it was set down? Now apply this to Christ. He was a Lamb, sent by the Father, without spot or blemish, the perfect offering for sin. This answers question # 7. The Lamb, Jesus, Rev.13:8, "a Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." A sacrifice made before the foundation of the earth was formed. This whole event had been foreordained by Jesus Christ from before the world was, for He is the author and finisher of our faith.
To understand what, or who was forsaken, you have to understand the incarnation of Jesus Christ. You are looking at two very different natures, Deity and humanity, perfect humanity without sin. God has not flesh and blood therefore God could not have died on the cross. That would be impossible. The Logos took on flesh and became the Son of God, and the son of man. Both God, and man.
Matthew wrote in Matt.1:20-21-22. "Mary thy wife: For that which is conceived = (begotten) in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou = (Joseph) shalt call His name Jesus." Matt.1:23, "they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, "God with us." Here we see the deity, and the flesh become one man. Begotten of the Holy Ghost. God manifest in human flesh.
1 Tim.3:16, "God was manifest in flesh."
1 Tim.2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus."
In this form of a man, Jesus still did what God could only do. He prophesied future events, He forgive sins, raise the dead, healed, and made promises only God could, or would keep.
Now the most powerful argument can be found in John 10:17-18, Jesus said, "my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power = (authority) to lay it down = (die,) and I have power to take it again = (be resurrected back to life.)
What He was saying is, neither the Jewish or Roman authority had any power over Him. He lay down His life voluntarily and gladly, and that no man could take it from Him. Then He said, I will give to you the fullest proof of this authority, by raising in three days that very mutilated, beaten, body from the grave by my own power and authority. See,
John 10, and also John 2:19, Jesus said, "Destroy this temple= (His body) and in three days I will raise it up." Notice personal pronoun in all cases, "I have power," and "I will raise it up."
So I conclude that from the above, Jesus was not speaking to His Father because of pain. I conclude that to say to the Father, "Why have you forsaken me," would have cast much doubt as to the trust He had in His Father and for His own plan of salvation. He did say in John 16:32, "yet the Father is with me."
I believe the meaning to these words, can be applied to Jesus being King of the Jews. As the King of the Jews, Jesus was speaking of the future demise of the people, as David had done. David was a man after God's own heart when he spoke these words, it was the nation that was left forsaken by God, not David himself. Jesus swore upon the Highest authority, that being Himself, for He is God, "My God, my God."
Also see the history of the Jews from the time of Christ's death. They were destroyed by the Romans, both as a nation and a people. Most were sent into captivity, many killed or persecuted by various nations over the centuries. The inquisitions, the holocaust the terror the Muslim nations, Spanish inquisitions, Russian persecution of the Jews, the Germans, Roman machine, the Turks, etc. Yes Jesus was speaking as King, prophesying the future catastrophes that would come upon this people and this nation, this for having forsaken Him.
It was the people, the nation that had forsaken Him as Messiah, they crucifying the Son of God who had been sent to save them. This was a just reward upon this people for the murder of their King and Saviour.
Thank you,
Phil LaSpino www.seekfirstwisdom.com reason why I believe Jesus was not speaking to His Father when He said, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me."
Luke 13:34-35, Jesus said, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I (personal pronoun) have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!"
(Jesus now pronounces the sentence upon this corrupted nation and people, "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: And verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is He = (Jesus) that cometh in the name of the Lord." This comes from Deut.32:11, where the LORD said, "as an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them beareth them on her wings." With ver.9, "the LORD'S portion is His people."
In Matt.24:30-31, Jesus is prophsying of His second coming. In John 16:14, Jesus said, "He (the Father) shall glorify me: Ver.15, All things that the Father hath are mine." ver.16, A little while, and ye shall not see me. -- a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father." John 16:7, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: For if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."
John 14:2-3, "I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. Ver.6, "no man cometh to the Father but by me." ver.10, Jesus said, "I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: But the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Etc. Etc.
This is the way I see the events at the cross unfold. He is speaking to the one thief, John, His mother, He asked for water, Now He looks down on the people whom He loved, the peoples Christ, (meaning their King, Priest, Prophet.) He came to save them. But they chose to kill Him. Looking on this murdious people He said, My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me."
Matt.27:39, "and they (the people) that passed by reviled (blasphemed)Him, wagging their heads. And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three day, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross. Ver.42, "He (Jesus) saved others: Himself he cannot save. If He be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe Him."
ver.43, Is taken from Ps.22:8, Davids quote is taken from Ps.22:1. In Matt.23 and 46, they were reversed, the people first said to Him, "He trusted in God: Let him deliver him now, if He will have him: Then Jesus replied to them, "My God, why hast thou forsaken me."
The expression My God, may have been an expression as we use it today. For example, when someone has done something they should not have done, we respond, "My God, why did you do that," or something of this sort. But I believe Jesus relpied to the people's comments in ver.46, with Ps.1.
Did Jesus Say "My God" To His Father?
The Easter season is fast approaching, and for the past 10 years I have been asking the same question. As for the status-quo, the existing responses I receive, are spotty, incomplete, without Biblical authority, taken out of context of all surrounding passages, many repeating only what they have been taught and none making any sense.
The question is, Was Jesus speaking to the Father when He said, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" From the words one would get the impression that this was the case and that Jesus was speaking to His Father. The pretext of the replies I receive leaves me to feel that they are put forth to conceal the real intention of the verse in question, maybe not intentional, but put forth anyway.
Besides this, the responses I receive leave to many unanswered questions, they not fitting the context of the verses before and after the verse in question.
So, I say emphatically, "NO," Jesus could not have been speaking to His Father. I will put forth my reasoning.
I believe that most in the Christian community today get stuck on the first think they hear about Scriptural subjects. If it sounds good, it must be right. From this position, no evidence, no matter how thoroughly presented can make them reconsider their responses. I only ask that you consider my evidence on the subject, reason them out, then draw your conclusions.
Peer-pressure can be detrimental to free and reasonable thinking. Personally I like to ask questions, examine both the Greek and Hebrew words involved, the text and context. Then with the help of the Holy Spirit, I would expect to establish a correct answer to any important Biblical question.
In researching any subject at hand, if my conclusions agree with the teaching being put forth, that's fine, if not, I will challenge the teaching presented. If It can be shown that my findings are incorrect, I will recant. At heart, I must be a brother to the Bereans. Researching a subject thoroughly is good policy, also the Scriptures encourage us to do just that.
It appears that a great deal of personal opinions, personal feelings and old time religious opinions are the reason most believe that Jesus was speaking to His Father.
Any way, I will present my case on the subject. Keep in mind, this is a Bible study, based on a whole bunch of questions that need answering if you say Jesus was speaking to His Father. Please help me to resolve this issue, and come to a correct understanding.
The way we respond to the following questions will show why the teaching can be affirmed, rejected, or needs to be investigated further.
1. Is Jesus God?
2. If you believe Jesus to be God, can He never NOT be God? In other words can He ever change in for one second?
3. Did the Father send His Son?
4. Did Jesus of His own free will leave heaven, come to earth, take on the form of a man, this in order to finish His Father's work?
5. Did Jesus know of His pending death on the cross?
6. Was Christ's death prophesied in the O.T?
7. Did Jesus die for any sin that He had committed?
8. Was Jesus both the son of man, and the Son of God?
9. Has Jesus ever changed, or will He ever change?
10. Did the apostiles forsake = (abandon) Him?
11. Did the Jewish people forsake Him?
12. Did the Jewish religious leaders forsake Him?
13. Did the Romans leaders, both political, and military forsake Him?
14. When Jesus went to the cross, how many people went to suffer and die with Him?
16. Who was it that raised the Lord from the grave?
17. Was there any other way for men to be forgiven of their sins if Jesus did not go to the cross?
These are my questions. If you answer the questions correctly, you should come to a correct conclusion to the original question of, "Who was Jesus speaking to when He said, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me."
Let us first examine the Greek word, "forsake, and forsaken: The Greek is, egkataleipo. To leave behind in any place or state; generally. To leave. It is a transitive verb meaning that it expresses action that passes from the agent to the object.
A. By implication. Forsaken means to leave in the lurch, as in to forsake, to desert, to abandon. Old and New Testament examples of how the word "Forsaken," is used follow.
John 16:32, Jesus said, "Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone (or forsake me:) and yet the Father is with me."
1. Matt. 27:46, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Also found in Mark 15:34, quoted from Ps.22:1.
2. Ps.22:1, "David said, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me."
3. 2 Cor.4:8-9, "We are, -- persecuted, but not forsaken"
4. 2 Tim.4:10, Paul wrote, "Demas hath forsaken me," ver.16, "no man stood with me, but all men forsook me."
5. Heb.10:25, "not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together," ver.13:5, "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."
6. Deut. 31:6-8, "the LORD -- He will be with thee, He will not fail thee, neither forsake thee."
7. Isa.1:8, "they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed." Also,
8. Isa. 62:4, "Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken."
9. Isa.62:12, "The redeemed of the LORD: And thou shalt be called, sought out, a city not forsaken."
10. Isa.49:14, "Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my LORD hath forgotten me
11. Isa.54:6-7, "For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou was refused, saith thy God. For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee."
Also, Past particle, expresses completed action. As
Acts 2:27, "thou wilt not leave = (forsake, abandon) my soul in hell," quoted from Ps. 16:10, where Sept. "leave."
Above is how the word forsaken is used, it meaning abandoned, deserted, left out on a lurch, left alone.
From the words themselves, Jesus appears to be speaking to His Father. But is there any evidence that we can produce that would disprove that teaching?
Lets go back to the 17 questions.
If you answered YES to the first question, "Is Jesus God,"
You need to ask yourself, if Jesus is God, than how can God the Father "forsake" God the Son? It would be as if the Father had abandoned Himself. Because the Father sent His Son to do and finish His work, and Jesus now sends us to do the work of the Gospel; If the Father had forsakes His Son, how could I trust Jesus not to forsake me if things go bad? Did He forsake His apostiles when they were caught and killed? This thought would have set a bad precedent. Also it would enforce the cults teaching that Jesus is not really God, our Creator, but only a god, a prophet, or a good man, but definitely not God"
Heb. 1:3, "Who being the brightness of His (the Father's) glory, and the express image of His (the Father's) person, and upholding all things by the word of His power."
Express meaning, It refers to something graven, cut into, stamped or graven into. The words here a quite different from man being made in God's image and likeness. So ask yourself, who can be like God, except God Himself.
1 Cor.11:7, "For He (Jesus) is the image and glory of God (the Father.)"
The answer can be applied also to question two. When can Jesus not be God? He can't. "He is always, from eternity past to eternity present, "upholding all things by the word of His power." Not for one moment can He not be God, never, or ever.
3. Did the Father send His Son? Answer is Yes.
A. John 3:16, "God (the Father) so loved the world, the He gave His only begotten Son (Jesus.)
B. John 3:17, "For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world: But that the world through Him (Jesus) might be saved."
C. Mark 9:37, Jesus said, "Whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but Him (the Father) that sent me." So why would He forsake the one He sent?
4. Did Jesus of His own free will leave heaven, come to earth, take on the form of a man, this in order to finish His Father's work? Answer is Yes.
5. Did Jesus know of His pending death, and expect to die? Answer is, Yes.
6. Was Christ's death prophesied in the O.T? Answer is Yes. Ps.22:16, "For dogs have compassed me: The assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: They pierced my hands and my feet." Read all of Ps.22.
Read all of Isaiah 53.
7. Did Jesus die for any sin that He had committed? Answer is No. He was, 1 Pet.1:2, "A lamb without blemish and without spot."
8. Was Jesus both the son of man, and the Son of God? Answer is Yes. The flesh was that of man, the soul and spirit of Christ was from the Holy Spirit. His name shell be called, "Emmanuel, God with us."
9. Has Jesus ever changed, or will He ever change? Answer is No. Heb.13:8, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever."
10. Did the disciples forsake = (abandon) Jesus? Answer is Yes. Matt.26:56, "All this was done that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook Him (Jesus) and fled."
11. Did the Jewish people forsake Him? Answer is Yes. Mark 15:13, "And they (the people) cried out again, Crucify Him."
12. Did the Jewish religious leaders forsake Him? Answer is Yes. They lead the people.
13. Did the Romans leaders, both political, and military forsake Him? Answer is Yes, they honored Caesar as their lord.
14. When Jesus went to the cross, how many people went to suffer and die with Him? Answer, None. Ps.22:11, "there is none to help."
16. Who was it that raised the Lord from the grave?
It was Jesus Himself. John 10:17-18, Jesus said, "My Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to TAKE IT AGAIN. This commandment have I received of my Father."
For those who will say that the Father could not look upon sin as Jesus hung from the cross. My reply is this, When did Jesus or the Father ever look upon sin favorably? Yet in the O.T. Under the law, when did God ever reject any offering of a First born Lamb, one without spot or blemish as a sin offering, this for the sins of the people? He never did.
Some may say it was the pain He was suffering that made Jesus cry out, "My God, My God. This may be true but I don't think so. My reasons,
As for the pain and agony He suffered, no one will never fully realize. We can look at the following to best get an idea of the agony He suffered. The words Excruciate, and Excruciating. The words come from the Latin, Ex. And Crux. Meaning, "to torment from a cross." This word was invented to reveal the amount of pain suffered in the crucifixion, for no other Greek word came close to revealing the pain and agony of crucifixion.
Before the crucifixion Jesus had been beaten by fists, had a crown of thorns driven into His head, beaten again with reeds, was scourged, meaning whipped him with a Roman scourge. With these scourging on His back and legs, He most likely lost a lot of blood. The sharpened animal bones places at the end of the lashes cut Him to the bone. The metal tied to the end of the lashes gave the skin very deep trauma. Now spikes were driven into His wrists, and feet. Each hitting very sensitive nerves, causing extreme pain.
Jesus hung in a position where it has been estimated that His joints in the shoulder, elbow, and wrist came out of joint,and his arms were stretched out from 2 to 4 inches. His tendons and ligaments kept his arms from tearing away from His body. Most likely He was in shock, His blood pressure was extremely low from a lose of blood. Yet He was coherent for He spoke the following,
Some claim that in His pain and agony Jesus may have been out of His mind with pain, crying out, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me." At a quick glance, this seems reasonable. Therefore we must examine every thing that went down just before and just after Jesus spoke these words.
John 19:26, While hanging on the cross, "When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom He loved, He (Jesus) saith unto His mother, Woman behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple Behold thy mother!"
Here Jesus seems to be aware of his surroundings, and able to comprehend and reason out His answer to this situation concerning His mother. He asking the apostle John to care for His mother upon His death.
One of the thieves on the cross said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." Understanding the request, Jesus replied, "Verily I say unto thee, to day shalt thou be with me in paradise."
Again Jesus seem to comprehend the words of the man, and responds to him as one having authority and control.
Moments after he said, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Jesus said, John 19:28, He, "knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst."
He seemed to understood His goals, and finished the work of the cross. Also that He was aware of His physical needs, for He said, "I thirst."
The last thing He said, was, Luke 23:46, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit." Does this sound like a man who was out of His mind with pain, and a man who had been forsaken by His Father?
Again His last words were, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: And having said thus, He gave up the ghost (He died.)"
The above makes me to understand that Jesus did not say what He said because He was out of His mind with pain, nor was He incoherent, insane, nor did He feel forsaken by His Father, But by the people he loved and wept for.
Did God ever reject the offering (the lamb) from a high priest if the priest had purified himself properly, and followed the law according to the way it was set down? Now apply this to Christ. He was a Lamb, sent by the Father, without spot or blemish, the perfect offering for sin. This answers question # 7. The Lamb, Jesus, Rev.13:8, "a Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." A sacrifice made before the foundation of the earth was formed. This whole event had been foreordained by Jesus Christ from before the world was, for He is the author and finisher of our faith.
To understand what, or who was forsaken, you have to understand the incarnation of Jesus Christ. You are looking at two very different natures, Deity and humanity, perfect humanity without sin. God has not flesh and blood therefore God could not have died on the cross. That would be impossible. The Logos took on flesh and became the Son of God, and the son of man. Both God, and man.
Matthew wrote in Matt.1:20-21-22. "Mary thy wife: For that which is conceived = (begotten) in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou = (Joseph) shalt call His name Jesus." Matt.1:23, "they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, "God with us." Here we see the deity, and the flesh become one man. Begotten of the Holy Ghost. God manifest in human flesh.
1 Tim.3:16, "God was manifest in flesh."
1 Tim.2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus."
In this form of a man, Jesus still did what God could only do. He prophesied future events, He forgive sins, raise the dead, healed, and made promises only God could, or would keep.
Now the most powerful argument can be found in John 10:17-18, Jesus said, "my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power = (authority) to lay it down = (die,) and I have power to take it again = (be resurrected back to life.)
What He was saying is, neither the Jewish or Roman authority had any power over Him. He lay down His life voluntarily and gladly, and that no man could take it from Him. Then He said, I will give to you the fullest proof of this authority, by raising in three days that very mutilated, beaten, body from the grave by my own power and authority. See,
John 10, and also John 2:19, Jesus said, "Destroy this temple= (His body) and in three days I will raise it up." Notice personal pronoun in all cases, "I have power," and "I will raise it up."
So I conclude that from the above, Jesus was not speaking to His Father because of pain. I conclude that to say to the Father, "Why have you forsaken me," would have cast much doubt as to the trust He had in His Father and for His own plan of salvation. He did say in John 16:32, "yet the Father is with me."
I believe the meaning to these words, can be applied to Jesus being King of the Jews. As the King of the Jews, Jesus was speaking of the future demise of the people, as David had done. David was a man after God's own heart when he spoke these words, it was the nation that was left forsaken by God, not David himself. Jesus swore upon the Highest authority, that being Himself, for He is God, "My God, my God."
Also see the history of the Jews from the time of Christ's death. They were destroyed by the Romans, both as a nation and a people. Most were sent into captivity, many killed or persecuted by various nations over the centuries. The inquisitions, the holocaust the terror the Muslim nations, Spanish inquisitions, Russian persecution of the Jews, the Germans, Roman machine, the Turks, etc. Yes Jesus was speaking as King, prophesying the future catastrophes that would come upon this people and this nation, this for having forsaken Him.
It was the people, the nation that had forsaken Him as Messiah, they crucifying the Son of God who had been sent to save them. This was a just reward upon this people for the murder of their King and Saviour.
Thank you,
Phil LaSpino www.seekfirstwisdom.com reason why I believe Jesus was not speaking to His Father when He said, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me."
Luke 13:34-35, Jesus said, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I (personal pronoun) have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!"
(Jesus now pronounces the sentence upon this corrupted nation and people, "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: And verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is He = (Jesus) that cometh in the name of the Lord." This comes from Deut.32:11, where the LORD said, "as an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them beareth them on her wings." With ver.9, "the LORD'S portion is His people."
In Matt.24:30-31, Jesus is prophsying of His second coming. In John 16:14, Jesus said, "He (the Father) shall glorify me: Ver.15, All things that the Father hath are mine." ver.16, A little while, and ye shall not see me. -- a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father." John 16:7, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: For if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."
John 14:2-3, "I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. Ver.6, "no man cometh to the Father but by me." ver.10, Jesus said, "I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: But the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Etc. Etc.
This is the way I see the events at the cross unfold. He is speaking to the one thief, John, His mother, He asked for water, Now He looks down on the people whom He loved, the peoples Christ, (meaning their King, Priest, Prophet.) He came to save them. But they chose to kill Him. Looking on this murdious people He said, My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me."
Matt.27:39, "and they (the people) that passed by reviled (blasphemed)Him, wagging their heads. And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three day, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross. Ver.42, "He (Jesus) saved others: Himself he cannot save. If He be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe Him."
ver.43, Is taken from Ps.22:8, Davids quote is taken from Ps.22:1. In Matt.23 and 46, they were reversed, the people first said to Him, "He trusted in God: Let him deliver him now, if He will have him: Then Jesus replied to them, "My God, why hast thou forsaken me."
The expression My God, may have been an expression as we use it today. For example, when someone has done something they should not have done, we respond, "My God, why did you do that," or something of this sort. But I believe Jesus relpied to the people's comments in ver.46, with Ps.1.